In the beginning, I was a bit dismayed by your forthrightness Adele. I used to think that you were too tough on the participants, and that you didnt seem supportive.
NOW though, after reading and observing for over a year. I GET IT. It is shocking in its simplicity really..what you said "DECIDE PLAN ABIDE"
You have taught us that binging is NOT an option. Once you have had it with the excuses and the "gee but why me's"....once you get OVER ALL THAT....you are left with a fat bloated body and despair over another failed attempt.

Yesterday I read your essay " too much information" and it REALLY hit home. I have spent the last 3 months researching Binge Eating Disorder to death.
I have read scientific journals, anecdotal reports and websites till the cows come home..and guess what?? I am not further along in my journey than before...I just know more.
I binge out of boredom and frustration and because my life is not as full as it should be. Ye gods...maybe my day to day life is even kinda boring??!!
There I admitted it.
But you know what?? WHO CARES!!!! All that, doesnt matter.
What DOES matter is that I keep eating clean. THAT is what is important..and later on, the rest will sort itself out.
A few days ago, I realized that I have spent too much time analyzing and trying to get WHY and WHEN I binge.
Then, Adele told someone to "calm down" and stop the chatter..and I realized...that that is me.
Enough with the trying to sort it all out.
The answer is startling simple, and staring me in my face...DECIDE PLAN ABIDE
NOBODY forces me to eat. NOBODY. I AM IN CONTROL...and I truly get that now, and WILL NOT sacrifice this feeling of peace and joy that I feel when I eat clean....for anything....the only person who screws me over..is ME!!!

Thankyou Adele, for your no nonsense, not putting up with our denials and excuses type of approach.
Thankyou for making me see that I can have this peace forever.
I know that it is not easy. I know that it will be very difficult--I KNOW ALL THAT.
But I do know also, that when I am eating clean, I am focused, happy and content.
This is it for me. The end of the road.
I do it now, or I wont do it. T
The time is now or not at all...I know all there is to know, know all about the food, what type of food, when to eat the food...blah blah blah...It's time for me to actually go out now, and DO.
Adele. I cant express to you enough, how your COMMITMENT is an example and lesson to me.
Thankyou for helping me see that NOBODY is going to force it down my throat, that I have to do this for me, that feelings will come and go...but the peace with my body will last forever.
DECIDE PLAN ABIDE. NO MATTER WHAT
Eating clean since 01/05/07

Laura
Current weight 190lbs
Goal weight 160lbs

So I’ll just invite you to (notice I didn’t say “I hope you will”) show us your stuff here, and I’ll look forward to watching your new dance.

Welcome aboard Laura.

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Laura
Highest weight 270
Current Weight 189
Goal Weight 160

Seems to me you’re starting to research again—internally this time. Aren’t you doing a new step in the same old research part of the dance? You’re asking WHY?

Calm down Laura. Lead with the diet. I promise, no matter how clean you eat, no matter how long you eat perfectly clean, sooner or later you’re gonna “feel tempted.” You’ll most likely feel EVERY other emotion there is to feel in this life. Sometimes you’ll be able to figure out at least part of the why, other times you won’t.

Lead with the diet, not any of the feelings—whether you know WHY you are having them or not.

GET IT? (grin)

Adele (142 this morning)

----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Laura, I removed this brief post you made to Jennifer’s journey for several reasons.

#1 you are giving someone drama queen, “smarmy platitude” advice that you haven’t yet been able to put into practice for yourself for any length of time. I want you to concentrate 100% on LAURA right now, and let what you perceive as everybody else’s problems go. This is one of the biggest reasons WHY I started this separate, focused site, PLEASE take advantage of that for yourself.

#2 you included no information about yourself (i.e., your weight statistics) in your signature. Please don’t make us work for that, get it stored in your signature, I think it’s an important part of getting real, getting closer to your personal truths here.

I considered removing Nikki’s post on Jennifer’s journey, it probably wasn’t necessary, but because Nikki is up-to-date here with herself, because she included her own experience and statistics, not platitudes, and okay sure, because it made ME feel better about the apparently wasted time I spent writing to Jennifer.

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Laura
Highest Weight 270
Current weight 187
Goal Weight 160
Weight today 187
Food Plan: Modified Atkins

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Yes it is an interesting journey, Laura and as I say over and over, if you build it, they (the insights) will come.

But be oh-so-careful about listening to and trusting your instincts and feelings. In my opinion you have a dragon in the cockpit, maybe not at the helm right now, but always at-the-ready grab hold of the wheel. Trust much more firmly in your PLAN. Paying (too much) attention to your “intuitive feelings” (as opposed to your decisions, your actions) is what usually leads to back to problems, right?

Or have I misread you?

Lead with the plan Laura. The rest will all follow, I promise.

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Current weight 182

----------
Highest Weight 270
Current Weight as of May 12, 2007: 190
Goal Weight: 160
Abiding Since: May 12, 2007

Laura your first post on this thread was your 18th post to this message board, which puzzled me until I realized you were the same Laura who posted on this site last summer. I still have a couple of the posts I wrote to you in May 2006 regarding your concerns about your then-upcoming European vacation plans.

You disappeared after that, and I was hoping you wouldn’t do that again...

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

----------
Highest Weight 270
Current Weight as of May 12, 2007: 190
Goal Weight: 160
Abiding Since: May 12, 2007

An interesting question Laura, and I’m not sure how to answer. I am still finding my way with doing something a little different with this site, but I do think over the two-plus years we’ve been here, it has been slowly emerging into just that. Perhaps it’s another case of “if you build it, they will come.” (“They” in this context being a small group of folks who want to move themselves further along in a journey that has not been as easy, fast, simple, smooth or successful as they hoped or expected it to be.)

I like each poster having her own thread and using it as a place to (self-) accountably journal her facts as a part of moving toward becoming “square” with—and within—herself. That is, getting clear and consistent on what she wants from this journey and what she is doing both for—and sometimes against—that, and what is happening, both intended and unintended consequences, as she makes adjustments. Also a place that sort of glares empty when the poster disappears.

If you want to have a presence here, I’d like for you to post regularly, say once a month or so, and let us know you’re still alive, still engaged in this; or let me know if you’ll be away for an extended period and want your thread left alive. (Yup, I have been somewhat inconsistent with how I enforce that.)

If it makes you too uncomfortable to keep a thread, let me know, then lurk away. Are you adjusting anything you DO because of what you are reading of other people’s experiences here? If so, then I’d say you’re getting something at least a little worthwhile (with or without posting), and I’m getting something toward my goal of offering help while helping myself remain on this path. I’d call that win-win.

I am making a very strong connection between emotions and eating...I can be living and eating "clean" but will still continue to overeat--even the good stuff. I think I am most guilty of what you described in an essay as "relief binges" I am wound tight as a drum to get THROUGH something--then I crash and overeat. It used to be more frequent--now I am better.

I certainly relate to “wound tight as a drum”, I think most of us are (or were) inside—even if part of our “dance” was to not let it show on the outside. Overeating was how I used to secretly cope with being unhinged. I found that leading with abstinence unwound me in another way because it took away my secret coping strategy. This is just another way to describe the coming undone place I’ve been discussing a lot here with Arlene, Joy, Denise, Suzi and Laina.

I still can find myself starting to get that way, I think many women do, but over time, and with abstinence and cheating not an option, I forced myself to find other ways to calm down and deal with those feelings. Walking is a biggie for me. So is “just calm down, divide and conquer this.” That’s me, self-talking myself down when I start feeling overwhelmed. Flylady has helped me a lot with tackling things 15 minutes at a time and getting less overwhelmed with stuff that isn’t as difficult or complicated it sometimes feels.

I still have strong feelings Laura, those haven’t changed. I’ve only changed how I respond to them.

You have also talked about feeling the feelings--and that they will pass--but I have also discovered that I dont really give myself TIME to feel the feelings, I reroute any kind of anxiety with the hand/mouth action.

I’m not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that you have identified what you do, but haven’t moved to change that consistently? Would suggestions on how to cope through an emotionally intense time help?

I have upped my intake of veggies--cut down my portions, and I am losing again...but really that is not or cannot be the main goal for me...it kind of freaks me out STILL if I dont see the numbers going down, or if they fluctuate.
I need to focus on eating clean, and consider THAT success...and if i do that, the numbers WILL go down, as a great bi product!

Laura, I see you worrying about having the right goals and trying to classify/manage your feelings, sometimes before you even have them? Could you perhaps focus on clean, and mindful eating, let that be your task (not necessarily a “goal”) and ... just see what happens? Not try predict, change, or judge how you (will) feel about that and just feel what happens inside? Do you think you be able to handle feeling “freaked out” by numbers and still eat mindfully (and according to your plan) for another day?

You’re down to your last 20 pounds. Those are generally doozies, most often a time of big changes, surprising uneasiness. I’ve often seen they can be make-or-break, fish-or-cut-bait time. Have you noticed that on lowcarb sites too?)

I do hope you’ll take a deep breath and decide to post more facts, more truth. I think you probably DO have plenty of important things to say Laura.

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Highest Weight 270
Current Weight as of May 12, 2007: 190
Goal Weight: 160
Abiding Since: May 12, 2007

I sense some anger and frustration toward me and a sense of “why-me?” and “It must be that I am different, special” toward yourself. (The dragon likes it that way, hmpft. The dragon wants to keep the communication open—and private—between the two of you so he stays appeased.) For what it’s worth, you seem to me like the people in my life I mentioned in my most recent post to Denise. I suspect that I and the “masters” (your word, grin)—that is, people who you sort of envy, for lack of a better word—often (unintentionally) cause you to feel a strong sense of dejection.

I’m pretty sure I don’t really have different or weaker FEELINGS than you do in my day-to-day life. I (and the “masters”) only DO different than you.

Now.

In my case, that is after about 30 years of trying to manage myself “your way”.

If you are like I used to be, I think you are letting yourself (conveniently, for the dragon’s sake) get overwhelmed by the “forever” part.

I still don’t worry about “forever”. I just worry about today, tomorrow and perhaps the next day. Today, since I “worried” about it beforehand, is already handled every morning by the time it gets here. Tomorrow...well I have time for forethought which allows me to get that all set today. And the next day? Well, if I have time (and if I practice economy of scale by cooking in large batches), then I can get myself that much further ahead. But if not, as long as tomorrow is set, I can deal with the next day tomorrow.

But forever? Well, what I’ve found is that if I take care of tomorrow and the next day, then “forever”, so far at least, is taking care of itself.

All the “how do I do this? how can I manage this?” are covered by The Plan. It really is that simple. But the simplicity isn’t easy. It’s all kinds of embarrassing, it’s agitating, it’s a little extra work every day (although, to me, a lot less effort than the way you’re trying to micro-manage it), it even limits my life a bit. But I like my life so much better this way. It is so so so much simpler and saner than I used to try to play it.

Laura, I think you continue to make this so much more complicated than it is, because if it’s complicated then you are self-justified in not doing it. You probably can’t believe this, but I have been, and I think “the successes” ALL have been exactly where you are. I have called it lowcarb purgatory, and I do know that it was pure hell. Hellish enough for me, finally, to take the simple way out.

So far, you don’t seem willing to make the single decision to permanently eliminate sugar and grains and other SAD foods from your life, to make the emotionally mature decision to take those away from yourself as an option. (I have YET to see a successful addicted eater be able to eat any sugar or grains Laura, not a single one.)

Wouldn’t a logical babystep be to make THAT decision, set it firmly in place and THEN, slowly, move yourself away from eating too much lowcarb food? You can set it firmly in place by saying to yourself, when you want to binge, “No, Laura, that’s not an option. What else could you do? What else could you eat, little Laura? How about a big plate of green beans sautéed with bacon, garlic and onions?”) And, by the way, I am not being glib or facetious when I talk about you talking to little Laura. I think this is a way we can begin to sort of take over and “parent” ourselves, to get the beginnings of learning to control ourselves!

I used to go ahead and binge on gold standard foods, heck I’ve acknowledged here that I still sometimes eat a little too much. It’s not nearly as “satisfying” as crap. That made it somewhat easier to learn to stop bingeing.

Laura, I’m glad you’re here, I don’t want to hurt you (or anyone!). I’d like to help you but for the most part you’re the only one who can do that. I hope you’ll keep us posted on what you decide and how it’s going. Perhaps the next time you want to binge, you could come here, write it down, and we can talk about what else you can do?

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Waving white flag, uncle uncle uncle. Laura, honey, I give up.

Overweight people are not bad people, overweight is not evil, immoral or any kind character flaw.

Our lives are constructed from our choices. We live with the consequences of them. You can’t live with what doesn’t make sense to you, then you also choose to live with all the consequences of what does.

Leading with the diet my body needs does limit my life a bit. I have found ways to work and live (and even do SOME traveling) with those limits. You don’t want to do that, at least not now.

I used to be a gourmet cook, I used to bake fresh, whole grain breads, made my own pasta, I had a million recipes. I still subscribe to Cook’s Illustrated, it’s what I think is the premiere magazine for serious cooks. But now I’m pretty much a voyeur with that, lol. I had to let go of the “making sense” part, and let it be about being healthier and saner. I couldn’t do/be everything I used to want, but I’ve slowly been able to come to terms with that. And it didn’t ruin my life at all, surprise surprise, it made it better.

But even the idea of different choices makes you miserable. I’m going to stop “helping” you with that. You’re not ready, this isn’t what you want.

Case closed for now Laura. Honest. Take care honey.

Adele (141 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

I know we are not really supposed to post on each other's threads but I really feel the need to share with you. Your comments so reminded me of myself and perhaps sharing some of my story and insights can help you.

Please go back and read the first couple of posts you made. You were ready to make the necessary changes. They are not easy ones and there will always be a part of me that is saying - this is not fair - I don't want it to be this way - I don't want to this forever - there must be an easier/ healthier/better way.

I was a committed vegetarian (no animal products) for 17 years - mostly for spitritual reasons. I was also a very health conscious, 'natural, healthy food' eater. I did all the so-called 'right things', yet I was 140 pounds overweight and was obsessed with food - binge, starve, try this, try that. Read everything I possibly could, knew every diet and every plan. Expert on nutrition and should and shoud nots. I could not understand why with all my knowledge, I just could not get it right.

What I have come to realise is that all the thinking, analysing, reading, knowledge, were the very things keeping me stuck. I had such strong ideas about what I thought was right and eating meat was certainly not one of them! However, my body has had a different voice - one which I have started to listen to. You have too - you clearly said that your body loves this way of eating and that it makes you feel great. It's your mind that has a problem!

Everytime I go into my head I hear the voices you describe in your last post. Voices such as - it's not right to cut out whole food groups - fruit and nuts are natural, healthy foods - I shouldn't be eating meat and on and on ... If I listen to those voices I drive myself crazy and the result of that is that I go into an almost paralysed state of NOT DOING. I spend all my time justifying why I am not doing it (and the reasons are pretty compelling) but it keeps me stuck in the same old merry go round. In Adele's words, lather, rinse, repeat...

What has changed for me is that I have made a conscious decision not to go there - stuck in my head, in my thinking mind and just to simply keep myself in present time. The way I do this is to just take the action - no matter what I think - meal by meal, day by day. I certainly don't always get it right (as is evidenced on my thread) and I still have the monkey mind jumping up and down for attention. But as long as I just DO IT, it all passes. Thank heaven I don't have to do this forever (I certainly could not manage that!) I only have to do it now. Keep yourself in present time Laura - don't worry about what will happen when you go on your next trip. Just do it for today. Give your body what it really wants and it will reward you with health and vitality. Don't give up on yourself.

Your postings have been so valuable for me because I have recognised myself and my story and it has been a wonderful reminder of what works and what does not. For today I choose peace. It is an option.

Much Love,
Laina

HW 275
CW 141
GW 130

1. Like everyone else here, I’m not gonna remove your thread unless/until YOU abandon it. (grin)

2. It occurred to me that if you could change just ONE behavior permanently, and lead yourself from there, I would urge you to weigh yourself first thing, every single day. Just look at the number and be aware of where you are. That’s the (imperfect, but crucial) step to staying aware of one single truth as your monkey mind races around from the rightness to the fairness to the feelings of all this. Then just proceed each day from there, eat anything you want, but see what your choices do—good ones and not-so-good ones—day after month after year.

If you made this one habit change, in the worst case scenario, you’d force yourself to watch yourself regain every single pound. And you and I both know you would never be able to do that. That’s the way you make yourself accountable to YOU.

That’s why I weigh every single day and even when it’s up, I am SO glad I do.

Adele (141 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

LOL, I’m right, huh? Nonetheless you can’t commit to doing it, just that one simple little chore of looking at the scale every day...because it would work?

Gotta love your, um, logic Laura.

Adele (143 this morning)

----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Weight today 175
----------
Highest Weight 270
Current Weight as of May 12, 2007: 190
Goal Weight: 160
Abiding Since: May 12, 2007

I’d sure like to hear how you’re doing Laura.

Adele (144 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 8+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com