HW/GW 132/118
CW 122

Well first, I think the people here who you think “can relate” will be more able and likely to do so if you give us a name instead of a number.

The #1 coping strategy you need to put into place is a decided-ahead PLAN for every single day. Map it out on Fitday at least one day ahead of time, so you decide with eyes wide open exactly how you will be fueling your tank. So you decide there will be no self-inflicted turmoil tomorrow.

You don’t really need to lose weight, you need to calm and even out your eating behavior, which, with a societally "approved" behavioral style, you've managed to put in charge of your emotional life. When your eating is in turmoil, it puts you into all kinds of emotional turmoil. Then, of course, there's the physical addiction element of it to contend with.

I believe the (only) way to change ALL this is by deciding (through the plan) to eat as steadily and consistently and, yes, boringly, in terms of calories, and fat/carb/protein ratios, as you can. A boring, gold standard diet (which is essentially a diet that meets the criteria of three different dietary approaches—lowcarb, paleo and anti-candida) is the sanest (and healthiest) way to build that strong and steady emotional management system for yourself. That’s how you eliminate your self-inflicted turmoil. Once you get past the social/emotional awkwardness doing this will bring for a while, you’ll be surprised how much less difficult plain old garden variety life-turmoil is to handle—eventually—when we’re not throwing mouth parties for ourselves.

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 9+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

You know, I'm not sure that my husband understands it either. But in the big scheme of things, it didn't matter that he understood as long as he didn't hinder or unconsciously sabotage my journey.

My husband would ask questions about why I did or didn't eat this or that in the beginning but like your husband was still supportive even though it may not have been the way he chose to go about it. What I've found is that my husband doesn't really WANT to know and If I tried to give him details he lost interest fast.

Not every person in my life has been supportive and I've had to work my way around and through that too. I know that I know that I know...that this way of eating is what works for me and that's all I need to know.

Lisa you said in your post "if only it were as easy as it sounded" well I've got good news for you. If you lead with the diet and keep leading with the diet no matter what.... it DOES get to be as easy as it sounds. You have to press and push your way through some things that are not always easy or fun but it does happen.

One of my favorite motivational speakers often says that we can either endure the pain of change and come out victorious on the other side OR we can endure the pain of not changing and staying the way we are indefinitely.

I find that even 8 years into my journey I still have to press through a few things now and then. Not near like I used to but still little things. Having that solid foundation sure does help when those times hit though.

ConnieMS (157.0 today)

----------
244/156.5/157
Maintaining at goal for 4 years
conniems@leadwiththediet.com
www.conniems.com

I just want to check in here and tell you that, thanks to your question, I’m working on a new essay that we need to put up here on How Do I Make Other People Understand? Watch for it soon.

Connie is right (I trained her well, yuck yuck). The bottom line is that nobody else NEEDS to understand, don’t waste your precious time trying to make them.

Just “keep on swimming” as a favorite (successful) old list-mate used to say, quoting what Dorey used to say to Nemo from the movie Finding Nemo.

Adele (141 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 9+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

At this place in your journey Lisa, I don’t think you should be terribly concerned with weight loss. I don’t think you and Leigh (and others who are within ~10 pounds of a healthy weight) need to focus on the loss nearly as much as you need to focus on what you are eating vs. what you are feeling. All you need to do is keep weighing daily to keep yourself informed of the truth of your body and how it calms and quiets as you calm and quiet your diet.

It’s the time when we really learn to feel ALL our feelings, and I think it’s okay to take a long long time doing this, because this is what maintenance will eventually look and live like. This is the critical part of the journey that is about getting more comfortable with BEING uncomfortable.

This part of the journey, in my opinion and experience, is a time of examining and reflecting hard on the changes you’ve made in what, why and how you eat. You will feel all kinds of small, uncomfortable feelings, even some unpleasant feelings about how you have to “do food” now, and still eat calmly and rationally.

Assuming you stay the course (remember, most people, even ones who have lost 100 pounds or more, do NOT stay the course), and ride the bumpy waves of these minor emotional challenges, you might begin having what I call “spillage” (I believe this is what our Arf calls hurricanes (grin)).

Through my own journey and then having worked now with quite a few others, I’ve found there is a kind of invisible tipping point inside most of us who are addicted eaters. A point where, if we don’t DO something (and in our case it’s EAT SOME CRAP NOW!!!) we are just absolutely certain that we’re gonna go crazy, we’re gonna think about things that we simply cannot BEAR to even begin thinking about. So we panic and react in our favorite self-destructive ways, and lo and behold, we’ve done another turn on that damned self-destructive merry-go-round of ours. AGAIN.

We have set up a tight and efficient Feelings Management Cycle-System that even we can’t see.

Eating cleanly, rationally, and “drug-free” interrupts the cycle and thus dismantles that system. When we stop eating feelings down, they start to bubble up. (And along this same vein, this is the EMOTIONAL half of the reason why addicted lowcarbers can get only partway to goal, then stall. For a time, they can still “use” on lowcarb, the emotional management system stays at least partially intact; but they eventually reach a tipping point where they think they’ll go crazy if they go any cleaner, and in some senses, of course, they are correct.)

If your “core” spillage is serious, such as past physical/sexual/emotional abuse, then it’s probably time to start finding a GOOD counselor and go ahead and, painful as it may be, get some help with cleaning out your emotional basement. It IS a somewhat painful process, my therapist aptly called it “like surgery without anesthesia.” But it wasn’t half as painful as the 30+ years of what I was constantly doing to myself to NOT address the past and the unresolved feelings inside me. And I think we were both a little surprised that, probably because I had stopped my self-destructive behavior for a couple of years before I sought therapy, I was able to do a lot of emotional housework in a very short time—about 3 months if I recall correctly.

My own preference are counselors who are versed and skilled in cognitive behavioral therapy, that is ones who can help us sort out our emotions but who look first and foremost at stopping the self-destructive behavior patterns as crucial to stopping the whole cycle.

And as I’ve outlined in other articles, expecting a lot of help from therapy and counseling before getting food-sober is akin to trying to figure out your life while you’re still using heroin. In my opinion and experience, the fact that our heroin is "legal" doesn’t make it any less emotionally intoxicating and self-destructive.

Once I have been doing well for a while longer, I'll have you look at my Fitday and see if you have any suggestions.

I should be able to help you tweak just a little IF you need that, when you’re feeling more practiced at leading with a clean, sober diet. The last weight usually takes a LONG time to drift off, so it may well be that you don’t need much, if any, tweaking. There’s time for that after you get more stable and “agile” emotionally, by building a STRONG, sturdy dietary foundation instead of trying to live life on a self-imposed emotional trampoline.

Now that I’m off work until September, I should have a lot more time to be able to do that again.

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 9+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Lisa 4-14 "The 1st day of the rest of my life"
today 123
----------
HW 132 GW 119

Lisa

today 120
----------
HW 132 GW 119

It happens all the time Lisa, that’s why more than 95% of people who lose weight on ANY “diet” regain it before two years has passed. I don’t know if you’ve read other lowcarb sites before, but the more prevalent pattern is regain (plus), even after people lose more than 100 pounds. Leading with abstinence is far from any guarantee of success, especially when you decide to forego abstinence “because it was there and I was all kinds of rattled.”

You had a “relief binge”. Those were biggies for me, one of the last and most difficult hurdles. See Relief Binges and Holidays

I’m guessing here that being so close to goal your dragon is whispering things like “you can do this now, a little won’t hurt.” But you know, you’ve seen (but not yet quite learned) over and over again, that a little hurts.

My advice is to stop having any “ownership” of leftover food, stop taking any (over)responsibility for seeing that it gets eaten, that food doesn’t get (gasp) wasted. Offer doggie bags, sure, but respect boundaries if people say no thanks, it’s not their responsibility. After a brief and reasonable effort to foist it on others who might appreciate it, then just euthanize it. I euthanize via the disposal or into the trash bag with dish soap poured over it because in the past I acknowledge have not been above a late-night dumpster dive.

If you have other pastry appreciating people in your household, of course you’ll have to work this out with them, but the bottom line is that you disposed of the stuff in your way without seriously upsetting them this time, so apparently they’re okay with that stuff disappearing from the refrigerator.

Know thyself, know thy vulnerabilities, even laugh at thyself (it helps!). But protect thyself FROM thyself in clearer moments. You are hereby absolved of any guilt (yeah, sure, I can grant that, why not? lol) you owe no one, including yourself, the obligation to eat crap instead of casting it back into the disposal system of the cosmos.

Adele (140 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 9+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Last Edited Adele on 20-Jul-2006 9:54 AM

It mostly doesn’t matter what triggers it Lisa, not right now. What matters is that you don’t DO it. Because doing it WILL trigger it, even if something emotional triggered it before you did it. Just stop doing it for a long long time and then you can slowly examine and discuss triggers. Abide the urges, they always pass. About giving into the urge, You know (and only need to know) this much is true: You are ALWAYS glad/relieved you didn’t, always defeated/depressed later if you did.

It’s been almost a month now, are you still with us? More importantly are you still “with yourself”—that is, are you still swimming along, choosing what’s better for you and your body?

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 9+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

You don't NEED to figure it out now Lisa. You can't. You have to do it—GET abstinent then STAY that way—then figure it (all) out. ONLY then can the why's come, and probably WILL whether you really want them to or not. The conundrum is that the reason you keep doing it is because you DON'T want to know why. Could you just trust me on that?

I am trying to find the time to read more of the essays and articles that I find so inspirational and motivating.

Here are the two you need to absorb right now.

Believing vs. Doing

and

Working on Our “Issues”

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Last Edited Adele on 17-Sep-2006 9:20 AM

you wrote: "until I hopefully will no longer even entertain the thought of ever binging again.

I've been at this for 8 years and 5 of those at goal. Let me just say that as a person with an addictive personality -I can binge on carrots (no, I'm not kidding).

For me the thought of binging has never gone away 100%. Yes, it has lessened dramatically but there are still times that it happens. The difference now is in how I think about it and what I do about it. Most times it's amusing to me because I recognize it so clearly when it hits. Sometimes it aggravates me because I feel that I should be "past that". But I know that I'll never be past that.

There are certain trigger foods for me (almonds are one) that I practically never can eat because they awaken the inner dragon with a vengence. I have to sound an "all hands on deck" type alarm when I even find myself standing in front of them at the store. I even pick up the package now and then and look at the calorie / carb counts.... as if somehow they've changed since the last time - LOL !!

This is what I mean when I say I can look at it with amusement. When I find myself standing there staring at them and wanting them. I know that I know that I know if I eat them - I'll eat all of them in one sitting and then the dragon will send me back for a larger package which I'll eat in the car on the way home. And this is after FIVE years at goal !!! I have to force myself to walk away and by the time I'm in the car I'm just shaking my head and smiling wryly at myself.

I haven't eaten almonds in probably 3 years but I do go through this process now and then and I'm sure will again. I guess I just want to show that the urges almost never go away totally.

ConnieMS 159.0 today)

----------
244/156.5/157
Maintaining at goal for 5 years
conniems@leadwiththediet.com
www.conniems.com

Does it cause a binge just on that food item or does it throw you into wanting to continue on to binge on other foods? I'm trying to figure out if I have a trigger food; I did eat too many pistachios the other day but wouldn't call it a binge. I am so proud that I have stayed clean for 10 days now. Adele had written in her recent milestone post that she knows she is intolerant to beef. I feel I must have foods that are trigger foods or I am intolerant to them but can't figure out which ones. I would never ever guess beef as one of them. Maybe I need to eat cleaner than I am now...not eat the occassional cheese...try to eliminate fruit and nuts. I quit coffee on Labor Day to help me eliminate the couple ounces of milk I would use in my coffee. I also like to be free of the caffeine addiction. This journey is difficult. Today I was chatting with my mom and somehow the subject came up of the mini shoe-fly pies she used to make. My mind began to bring me back to the smell and taste of one of my favorite treats that she used to bake once or twice a year and then had thoughts of bingeing on them. I did snap right out of it and reminded myself of my total commitment to this. Connie, your last post was very helpful to me since I feel that there will always be sights and smells and exposure to foods that I remember bingeing on and thoughts of having another binge will rear its' ugly head and I will have to learn how I will handle those situations so that I will continue to be strong.

Lisa 9-11
Today 121
HW 132 GW 119

Lisa, beef is a problem food for me but it is not a trigger food, and long-story-short, I sure wouldn’t be looking first at anything like that as a problem for you. I could spend a lot of time trying to explain what I think might be some fundamental differences between your snowflake and mine, but I think it would be more helpful and productive to explore what I think is more likely going on with you. I think I am beginning to get a better grasp of your frustration.

You keep asking about eliminating your strong desire to binge. The cause of your desire, if it is anything like mine is/was, is not JUST certain foods, for me there certainly was more to it than that. The foods were the physiological part, and my approach had me tackling the food first, because, unlike you, I was getting progressively more overweight and sick, and because I honestly had no idea I even HAD emotional problems with food until I had stopped bingeing for a very long time. But in the absence of those foods, and the absence of the bingeing behavior, especially after I got to goal and remained abstinent, eventually the emotional cravings returned. Those turned out to be a separate but POWERFUL force. Those were the psychological part of the desire.

There is no change in your diet that will make your emotional cravings abate. Until you get them up and out and face them, only bingeing will stop them—which I’m suspecting is probably why you returned to it, to your old behavior pattern, after your first long spell of abstinence. Do you think that’s possible?

Your weight history and your success with normal lowcarb leads me to doubt you have serious issues with most normal, healthy lowcarb foods. It seems much more likely to me that you keep coming undone not because of specific (trigger) food(s), but because of what I call spillage trying to bubble out when you abstain.

Spillage is the term I use to describe whatever it is in the inner emotional cesspool that I find most food addicts have, the secrets we try to keep—mostly from ourselves. We keep a TIGHT lid on them by stuffing and keeping them buried underneath piles of distracting, mind-numbing food. It’s usually stuff—feelings, memories, pain, hurt, grudges, etc.—we’ve been holding in and onto for a very long time. When we stop bingeing, eventually the lid loosens and the festering feelings start bubbling up. We sort of instinctively sense this and in the past, THAT is what silently signaled us it was time to begin the stuff-it-down dance again….OR ELSE….you know, something vaguely terrible might happen.

Just stopping bingeing is not enough, it’s only the first necessary step to recovering. You had reasons for bingeing Lisa. Bingeing might have even been the best (or only) coping tool available to you in the situations you endured in the past. Bingeing may have emotionally protected you from unbearable pain or situations you were too young to understand or handle. I think this is also the “naked” feeling some people often describe when they start getting closer to goal. If food served as a kind of shield or protection, taking it away eventually brings us closer to what we’re trying to protect ourselves from.

In my opinion/experience, that stuff has GOT to come out Lisa, or we will continue to “need” to push it down with food.

IF that’s the case, after you’ve been abstinent for a while and the feelings start to stir, it might be time to find some good professional help. This is when it IS time to begin “working on our issues.” When we are actively using, I don’t think we can be “reached or teached”, any more than a cocaine user who snorted yesterday. A good counselor, especially one skilled in cognitive behavioral therapy or one who has a lot of experience with other recovering addicts, would be a great starting place.

So Lisa, am I getting (uncomfortably) close to any truth about you? I hope so honey. I can promise you that whatever it is that you’re keeping inside is not as big and strong as you are, and it’s probably not terrible, frightening or shocking to anybody but you. Getting it out is scary, but it is also the most amazing relief you can imagine. It's a million times easier than keeping this tight cycle of self-abuse going which, up till now, you've made your only other choice.

Keep us posted Lisa.

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

today 120
----------
HW 132 GW 119

This might be a worthwhile time to take your abstaining self to see a counselor for a while. Maybe you don’t need to self-explore, but being in a binge-free state is the best time to see if you do or not. A good counselor who has worked with addicts and eating disorders would probably be able to help you figure that out pretty quickly. (Hint: it won’t take long if you don’t need to do it; if you have a cesspool, you can start clearing it with some help.)

I hope you’ll continue to choose abstinence and keep us posted Lisa.

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 6+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

When I tried Googling this whole topic for you, I came upon this site:

Find a Therapist

For what it’s worth, when I plugged in my city plus eating disorders as the issue I was seeking help with, my therapist came up on their list. I have no idea what the criteria are for inclusion on this particular listing—it seems like either a paid or voluntary listing—but I do feel certain that there are a lot more than 8 psychologists working with eating disorders in the area I live in.

I also have a close friend who has seen several counselors on and off over the years, some (she thought) more helpful than others. Her approach was to at least START with psychologists who were approved on her insurance, because it was more cost effective. If she felt comfortable with the counselor, then she continued. If not, THEN she began searching out of network. That also seems like a sensible approach if that’s a factor for you.

Perhaps Mary and Debby and any others here who have seen counselors will chime in as to how they found theirs.

I hope you’ll keep us informed Lisa.

Adele (144 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

It's funny, that is the exact site I used to find my marriage counselor. It came in handy because I was able to search for specific criteria like being close to home and a sliding scale.

Then I just sent out a few different emails to people on the search list about what I was looking for and went from there. My personal therapist is with my HMO and I just picked at random.

I'm switching insurance in January to a PPO so I will be able to pick one of my choosing. She is often booked 3-4 weeks in advance and I just don't find that conducive to getting help.. I need more time.

----------
Luv,
Debby
San Jose, CA
HW: 380
CW: 253
GW: 150
debbypadilla@yahoo.com
Fitday (since 2/9/06): Debby's Fitday Journal
LWTD fully since 10/11/05 (after 4-6 months of babysteps)
QUOTE: Today is the most important day.

Finding a therapist was like shopping for a car. I needed to "shop" for one. I called my insurance company to see who was in the area for "therapists". Then I picked up the phone and called each one. I told them that I was looking for a therapist who had some experience with people with eating disorders and addictions. There were a few that actually made the time to talk to me on the phone. The particular therapist that I ended up with, was kind, listened, wasnt judgemental, and really seemed to care and know what he was talking about. He spoke to me not at me if you know what I mean. If I ask for feedback, he is all the more willing to give it.
I currently moved into a group therapy setting with him where I am learning to interact with others who dont necessarily have eating disorders but other complications with life. I ALWAYS get so much out of a session there.
Pick wisely.
This is what seemed to work well for me. BTW...that site doesnt show my therapist. I did the work, like planning my food, and got a treasure.

----------
Mary

HW423/CW158
265 Pounds Gone
Today's weight...165
http://www.fitday.com/WebFit/PublicJournals.html?Owner=mary223

Adele (142 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 10+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Lisa, why would you need to change THEIR eating habits?? This is only about yours.

Be especially careful about setting up forbidden foods for your children, the evidence is strong that this almost always boomerangs and CAUSES eating problems later.

What you CAN do is model being clear and consistent about eating choices for yourself and even say out loud from time to time why you limit yourself to certain food choices. “I like macaroni and cheese a lot, but I don’t like the way I feel after I eat it, so I don’t eat it” for example. When they’re older, if they find they have their own problems or issues with food, they’ll have a strong role model and reference point for deciding to change their own behavior if/when they're ever ready and willing to do so.

I can only imagine that it’s hard to prepare foods that you don’t eat for them, I’m past the point of cooking for children, and I didn’t get into this in an abstinent way until one was out of the nest and the other one was entering high school. However, you might note that both Connie and Mary do have young children, both have pursued abstinence through to goal and maintenance for themselves for years, and neither have put effort into trying to change their childrens—or their spouse’s—food habits.

Perhaps instead of making this a daily battle, you could designate one night a week as pizza night, one night a week as mac and cheese night, etc., thereby setting up some family traditions and imposing some sensible limits and a little sanity for yourself. That would help with planning and you knowing ahead of time when you’ll need to be stronger—and even more prepared—than other times. (Implementing Flylady meal planning strategies could help with this?) And don’t forget to fill your own tank before you prepare that stuff for them. It’s so much easier to say no thanks when we’re not hungry.

Adele (143 this morning)
----------
168/140, Size 16/8
Lowcarbing 11+ years
Maintaining at goal 7+ years
Moderator/Owner
adele@leadwiththediet.com

Lisa
125 today
----------
HW 132 GW 119